* (restored)
Interview with Eve Babitz
Conducted by Paul Karlstrom
At her home in Hollywood, California
June 14, 2000
PAUL KARLSTROM: Why don’t you –
EVE BABITZ: I thought of myself as, I was like an art groupie/art model and I wanted to-I never modeled for anything like that and never again did, and really most artists, you know, when they have models they really are drawing them basically, like in sculptures, not taking photographs, so I don’t know who-and it wasn’t Duchamp’s idea so I figured I was the artist and the model in that one.
KARLSTROM: Why don’t you tell me just, you know, what led up to it, how it came about?
BABITZ: Well, the photographer Julian Wasser came and there was the-they had the big party at the Green Hotel, even though Julian doesn’t remember it; he has photographs that he took there at that time. And so I didn’t get invited to it because Walter Hopps [curator of Duchamp retrospective at Pasadena Art Museum, 1963] was mad at me.
MR. KARLSTROM: Why was that?
MS. BABITZ: Because his wife was in town, basically.
MR. KARLSTROM: Is that Shirley? [Art historian later married to dealer Irving Blum.]
MS. BABITZ: Yes. I mean she came back, she suddenly did come back in a flash the minute that Duchamp thing happened and I was like not allowed in. So, but then I found out Jim Elliott wasn’t invited either, so maybe nobody under 20, maybe 21, under 21 you weren’t allowed in. So, so, he didn’t invite me, so, and he wouldn’t call me back, and he wouldn’t call my mother back. And so I decided that if I could ever, like, you know, create any vengeance or havoc in his life I would, even though I was pretty powerless because I was only 20 and there was no way I could get to him. But, this Julian came up to me at the opening, the public opening, which I went to with my parents and-
MR. KARLSTROM: That was at the museum?
MS. BABITZ: Yeah. At the Pasadena Art Museum, and he said he had this great idea that I should play chess naked with Marcel Duchamp and it seem to be such a great idea that it was just like the best idea I’d ever heard in my life. It was like a great idea. I mean, it was, not only was it vengeance, it was art, and it was like a great idea. And even if it didn’t get any vengeance, it would still turn out okay with me because, you know, it would be sort of immortalized. I would be this, you know, here’s this Nude Descending the Staircase guy and now he’s going to be The Nude in the Pasadena Art Museum. But, of course, I said, you know, I didn’t think that the Pasadena Art Museum old ladies would go along with this. So-
MR. KARLSTROM: Was that part of what attracted you to the idea?
MS. BABITZ: Yes. Yeah, because it was like the Little Old Ladies from Pasadena, you know that Beach Boys’ song.
MR. KARLSTROM: Right.
Eve Babitz
MS. BABITZ: So, I thought well, you know, this will be, you know, and it is kind of like, you know, it’ll just kill them to find out that this happened there. So, but, I thought that he should tell Walter so Walter would know what we were doing, that we were going to do this. Because, it didn’t seem like-I mean, it was okay to do it, but they ought to know basically. But, I know that Julian did not tell anybody because he probably forgot it the minute he agreed to do it. But he did call me the next day and say “Now, you’re not going to chicken out are you?” Because we were supposed to do this two or three days later when they came back from Las Vegas, maybe the next day. They went to Las Vegas; they came back, Duchamp shows up at like, I don’t know, it was a Thursday morning or something. It was like seven o’clock. Julian comes to get me at, like, seven in the morning. We drive out to Pasadena to create this, you know, rape.
KARLSTROM: And Duchamp didn’t know what he had in mind either?
BABITZ: And he brought, and he said “Put that chess table there”. You know, we’re going to do the chess table. So, Duchamp, he had no idea. I mean that maybe he would of chosen someone else basically. He’d never met me before.
MR. KARLSTROM: Oh, I don’t know, you look pretty good.
MS. BABITZ: He’d never met me before. I’d never met him before.
MR. KARLSTROM: Did you know who he was though?
MS. BABITZ: No, I didn’t know who-I mean, I had an idea when I went to the art opening that he was probably great. He was one of those great people like-
MR. KARLSTROM: But you hadn’t heard of him before?
MS. BABITZ: No. I mean I’d never heard of anybody except Ed Kienholz. That was as far as my-I knew who Ed Kienholz was and I thought he was great. So, I didn’t even know who Joseph Cornell was at that time. So, and I knew that everybody was like in love with him because they had this huge party and they had two ballrooms and two bands. That I didn’t get invited to.
KARLSTROM: Uh-uh.
BABITZ: So Julian sets up lights for a million years and I’m sitting there, like nothing to do, smoking cigarettes. Like, 8:30 or 8:15, Duchamp shows up with his beautiful suit and that hat from Las Vegas, that straw hat.
KARLSTROM: Did the museum engage in-
BABITZ: -the people who were in there were teamsters marching back and forth with big pieces of art. That’s who was looking at this.
KARLSTROM: So you had an audience?
BABITZ: Yes.
KARLSTROM: It was like a performance piece?
BABITZ: That’s right.
KARLSTROM: Did you feel that way about it?
BABITZ: Yes.
Marcel Duchamp and Walter Hopps at the Pasadena Art Museum
KARLSTROM: That’s cool. You actually were in many respects the artist, but, on the other hand, the concept [that] was Julian [was watching you]?
BABITZ: Right, but he didn’t think that anyone would go along with it, because he’s always thinking up ways to get girls to take off their clothes.
KARLSTROM: So he had-this is interesting because you said you hadn’t modeled, but, in fact, you had, you posed nude for Julian.
BABITZ: Not-
KARLSTROM: At least on, what was that? Several times?
BABITZ: Well, no, once.
KARLSTROM: Just once.
BABITZ: And it wasn’t posing.
KARLSTROM: Then what were you doing?
BABITZ: It was getting naked pictures of yourself so you could show guys.
KARLSTROM: Oh, I see. So that’s what you were doing?
BABITZ: That’s right.
KARLSTROM: And you said, “Julian I need some naked-”
BABITZ: I don’t want to go, like, work in some horrible magazine. This is what all girls did at that time.
KARLSTROM: And so you wanted to have naked pictures of yourself to show guys?
BABITZ: Gorgeous ones.
KARLSTROM: Yeah, gorgeous, right.
BABITZ: Yes. That’s right. Gorgeous-
KARLSTROM: Because you were proud of your body.
BABITZ: Right.
KARLSTROM: Why did he choose you then for this, what turned into an extremely famous photo session? You playing chess.
BABITZ: Because he likes me.
KARLSTROM: You were friends?
BABITZ: Yeah.
KARLSTROM: He said you would be the best.
BABITZ: And he knew I wanted, you know, he wanted me to be part of this deal and I wouldn’t go to the party with him when he wanted to take me because Walter didn’t invite me.
Julian Wasser
KARLSTROM: So, what were you, Walter’s girlfriend or something?
BABITZ: I thought I-I deserved respect.
KARLSTROM: I would say. This story is much more interesting than-
BABITZ: That’s right. I was 20 years old and I wasn’t invited to this party. So, I took these pictures. That was it. You know, I got to Duchamp. We started playing chess.
KARLSTROM: Was that the first thing you did? That’s how this photo session started?
BABITZ: Yes.
KARLSTROM: Did he seem sort of taken aback when you took off your shirt?
BABITZ: No. He floated into it.
KARLSTROM: What did you do? Did you just go by the chair and take off your shirt?
BABITZ: No. He said, Julian said, “Okay, blah, blah, blah” You know, sit down [inaudible] you know, [inaudible]. “Okay, Eve, take that shirt off”. There was the chess table. Duchamp goes to the two little chess pieces. Julian kicks that shirt like 30 feet away, so I have nothing on.
KARLSTROM: Was it fun?
MS. BABITZ: It was hot. I was sweating like a Lakers game.
KARLSTROM: You mean it was hot in there?
BABITZ: I was sweating. No one else was. Everybody else was delightfully cool.
KARLSTROM: But you enjoyed it?
BABITZ: Well, it was-I mean it was like work, I’ll tell you and I don’t like work. Work is not my thing.
KARLSTROM: And so Marcel just took it in stride.
BABITZ: Yeah. He beat me three times.
KARLSTROM: Are you a good chess player?
BABITZ: No. Horrible.
KARLSTROM: Oh.
BABITZ: Obviously.
KARLSTROM: Because he’s supposed to be. I guess he was brilliant.
BABITZ: I know.
KARLSTROM: Did you-so most of the photos-I mean, we seen the proof sheet like reproduced during West Coast Duchamp, that book, you know.
BABITZ: I thought he only spoke French. I had no idea he spoke English so I tried to speak French to him. I asked him if he knew Mr. Stravinsky, the name of my godfather, and he said yes that he had been to that 1910 Firebird suite thing in Paris.
KARLSTROM: Did he seem sort of impressed that you had that connection?
BABITZ: Well, he seemed like-he just seemed like the world was at his finger tips and everything was always perfect all the time.
KARLSTROM: Sort of everything-
BABITZ: He wasn’t losing chess, at chess.
KARLSTROM: Well you didn’t care did you?
BABITZ: No, I didn’t really care. I wanted to get it over with.
KARLSTROM: And you wanted to get your clothes back on.
BABITZ: Right.
KARLSTROM: So you basically-
BABITZ: I wanted my cigarettes. I wanted my glasses. I wanted my clothes on; I wanted Julian to take me to a Chinese restaurant.
KARLSTROM: So you-
BABITZ: I knew exactly the one he wanted to go too. Chow Yung Fat. It’s down on Main Street.
KARLSTROM: So you really weren’t all that comfortable?
BABITZ: No. No.
KARLSTROM: But it was worth it.
BABITZ: It was worth it because Walter came in and he dropped his gum.
KARLSTROM: So Walter actually came in to see how it was going.
BABITZ: Yeah.
KARLSTROM: And he didn’t even know you were there.
BABITZ: No.
KARLSTROM: Wow. So you won.
BABITZ: Yeah.
Pasadena Art Museum 1973
KARLSTROM: You didn’t win at chess.
BABITZ: No.
KARLSTROM: But you won in terms of taking control of the situation.
BABITZ: That’s right.
KARLSTROM: I mean, did you think of it a little bit that way? Because I’m thinking of motivation.
BABITZ: I said, “Hello, Walter” and he dropped his gum.
KARLSTROM: Literally?
BABITZ: Yes. He always chewed Double Mint gum.
KARLSTROM: So what, did he hang out and watch?
BABITZ: No. He was even more ashen than he already was. He ran into his office-
KARLSTROM: Did it work?
BABITZ: Did it work? Yes.
KARLSTROM: Because you did get back, I mean-
BABITZ: Yes.
KARLSTROM: It sort of rekindled Walter’s interest?
BABITZ: It made him return my phone calls, which was what I wanted out of life.
KARLSTROM: Isn’t it interesting. This famous-this is actually one of the most famous photographs certainly in California art history.
BABITZ: I know, I know, and the reason is so bad. So bad.
KARLSTROM: What did you talk with Duchamp about? You said that the-
BABITZ: About the Firebird Suite.
KARLSTROM: That was the main thing?
BABITZ: Yeah. I mean, I just was basically sweating and wishing it was over and I couldn’t believe he had beat me three times in [inaudible] spades which mean you move like two pieces and then the person check mates you.
KARLSTROM: And you never got anything out of it? Except fame.
BABITZ: Except, you know, my usual fame.
KARLSTROM: Fame and a little bit of power over Walter.
BABITZ: That’s right.
KARLSTROM: And so you really had nothing to do particularly with Marcel Duchamp.
BABITZ: No. No. No.
KARLSTROM: There was no-you were both models is what it amounts to.
BABITZ: That’s right. Right. Right.
KARLSTROM: And he had his clothes on.
BABITZ: It had to do with Walter.
KARLSTROM: How did you feel, maybe not so much in that situation, but perhaps, about your own sexuality? Were you sort of very much aware of that at that stage? You were 20 years old. Did you have that kind of self-awareness or self-consciousness as a sexual young woman?
BABITZ: Yes.
KARLSTROM: Yes.
BABITZ: I went to Hollywood High.
Outtake
KARLSTROM: So you thought it was a pretty weird thing-
BABITZ: Yes. I did.
KARLSTROM: So it wasn’t-
BABITZ: I mean he was old, you know.
KARLSTROM: Okay, what about that?
BABITZ: It was like kind of depressing.
KARLSTROM: Really?
BABITZ: Yeah.
KARLSTROM: Tell me about that. Tell me how you felt about that. That’s interesting. Because that suggests a kind of connection in a relationship, at least visual, between you and your self-conception, then brings in your partners shall we say. How did you feel about that? You said he was old.
BABITZ: Well, I mean, I just, I mean he was old and he was too old for me.
KARLSTROM: Okay. Well, but you know what that suggests is very interesting to me. Taking off your clothes and, in a sense, because you were paired with him that there was that, even a sexual connotation to him. Is that right?
BABITZ: Yes, there wasn’t a sexual connotation.
KARLSTROM: There wasn’t?
BABITZ: That’s right.
KARLSTROM: But still you said that he was too old for you.
BABITZ: Right. That’s right. He was, I mean, it was like, I mean, if he were like, you know, Nureyer, you know, and some sort of like insanely gorgeous looking, you know, stunning type of person like that it would have been much more fun.
KARLSTROM: Well, you see what that implies. That does suggest –
BABITZ: That I’m a shallow person?
KARLSTROM: No. No.
BABITZ: I am a shallow person.
KARLSTROM: No, Eve, that’s not what I’m suggesting. But if you are, you are.
BABITZ: I would be much more eager to show it to my friends. But now I’m glad it wasn’t. As I’ve grown older I’ve realized that it was like a smart move.
KARLSTROM: You would have preferred a James Dean.
BABITZ: Right.
KARLSTROM: Then, you would of really-
BABITZ: Then I would’ve shown my friends.
KARLSTROM: So it wasn’t you being naked that you were unhappy with.
BABITZ: No.
KARLSTROM: It was about being paired with this old guy.
BABITZ: That’s right.
KARLSTROM: I understand.
BABITZ: How would you like it? I mean, if it were like Louise Nevelson or something and you were 20 years old?
*
p.s. Hey. ** jay, No prob. I’ve never been to Alton Towers or Thorpe, but my trusted friends who have say they do in fact have a few excellent coasters apiece. We’ll see someday. I too can’t quite figure out the motivation of ‘escorts’ who use celebrity shots as their profile pix. I should write to one of them and just straight out ask them, I suppose. Did you hit the Emo night? Was it Emo enough? Did you pass? I think I remember thinking ‘Love is the Devil’ was pretty good but not amazing. Pipe up with your take if you spring for it. I hope your day is so great that your instincts tell you that you just had the peak experience of your life. ** Dominik, Hi!!! Zac and I plan to go to Efteling for my birthday in large part to ride Danse Macabre. Otherwise, I’m excited about the ones that are close to Paris and that I can easily do (Mission Bermuda @ Futuroscope, World of Frozen @ Disneyland Paris). And for sure Universal Horror Unleashed in Las Vegas whilst on a future trip to LA since it’s only a few hours drive from there. Still awaiting the hopeful conclusion of the film problems. Seemingly by Monday barring some new bout of craziness from the other party. I agree with you about the podcast, and I’m happy to hear that you thought that. I was very disappointed. It was like listening to a bunch of straight guys talk about our films like the films were prostitutes they weren’t attracted to. Ugh. Surely love was able to find a stationary store that knew your desires inside out? Love bonking me on the head for wasting 6000 coins on a Royalty Ticket to enter Shogun Studios because I stupidly thought the warp pipe I needed to get to Toad Town would be inside the Studios when it was right there outside the entrance hidden behind a tree, G. ** _Black_Acrylic, I’ve never seen a ‘Frozen’ film either and have no intention to see one, but I too long for the completion of Frozen World for the very same reason. Oh, I hope Dundee Radio Club knows which side their bread is buttered on and grabs Play Therapy v2.0 like the lifeline it is. ** James, My blog tells me that indulgently long comment o’clock was 3:33 pm yesterday but that was probably Paris time. Well, I just couldn’t possibly disagree with you more about amusement parks, unsurprisingly. Okay, you’re right about grandmas, no argument there. Yes, Dennis the Menace, another nickname of mine that I forgot about. But that’s it. He’s the only cool other famous Dennis. Okay, maybe Dennis Wilson. I’ve met a fair number of commenters IRL over time, and some of them have become among my closest friends. It’s like Grindr without the grinding. I only hit a bunch of video game villains yesterday, and that doesn’t count since ‘hitting’ them just involving pushing a little button repeatedly. I hope you’re not in that bad mood today. But if you are, I’ve got your back, so to speak. Other countries to visit, sure, you bet, but, as for a place to live, nah, I think France has me magnetised. ‘Til soon. ** Poecilia, Hi. Hm, well, if you think of a blog as kind of house with different rooms, I think it’s possible to barge into, say, another inhabitant’s bedroom, for instance, and the comments are kind of maybe like bedrooms somehow, which I know is pushing it? ** Joseph, The good old Netherlands! So flat, but so useful. Everyone, Joseph bypassed the Cloudflare obstacle by using a Netherlands IP address in his VPN if you want to try that. Dutch is a cool language. I used to speak it a little. It’s nice. It’s chunky but basic, and it coaxes saliva into your mouth when you speak it if you pronounce it properly. I’m excited to read your new book, and that will happen very soon. Going to Cedar Point is one of my biggest seemingly achievable dreams. Vague plan to make a day-or-two stopover around there on my next trip to LA. Wish me luck. And have a lovely Thursday entire day. ** Lucas, Hi, pal. That’s okay Busy is busy and sleep can be a schizo master. Luck on the exam. Substack does seem to be the location of increasingly many of the more tempting homemade sites. Scary … oh, the no confidence/bring down the prime minister thing? It is kind of spooky. I’m hanging in there, you most certainly are. I hope today occasions your just rewards. ** Steve, Oh, for sure. The three near Paris, obviously, and Danse Macabre is already on the agenda, and Fast & Furious: Hollywood Drift cos it’s in LA, and I would really like to see what Poland is all about. I wouldn’t bother with the podcast. It’s kind of a drag. Everyone, Steve has weighed in one two of the buzz films of the moment. To wit, Steve: ‘Here are two of my recent reviews, on Joshua Oppenheimer’s THE END and Luca Guadagnino’s QUEER. ** HaRpEr, Hey. Totally agree about the Oz one. Majorly sucks that it’s all the way over in Australia. Maybe Paris will get hit by a freak magically transportive tornado. Cool that the presentation did its job. The best things are always at least a little awkward, aren’t they? What does ‘performing some writing there’ mean? Sorry if that’s a spaced out question. I’m not yet fully coffee-d up. Wow: that the famous British Museum reading room is open. Yeah, I know it’s crazy history and rep. And that there was a visible butt print on one of the chairs that apparently was made by Rimbaud’s butt until the Museum mistakenly reupholstered the chair. I think ‘Recollections of the Golden Triangle’ is my favorite Robbe-Grillet, so total score there. I love literally everything by him, but that one snagged me especially for some reason. As long as one isn’t bored, everything is okay, although it sometimes takes until you’re bored to appreciate overwork as a gift. Or something. ** nat, The blog’s bathroom is only accessible once a month when the slaves rule this roost. No, you’re right about the realities usually being a step down, but sincerely sought high ambitions that fail are the best that humans can achieve and expect, it could be argued. ‘Biblical homicidal twinks’: The imaginations reels, it’s true. ‘The Notebook Trilogy’ is extremely way up there in my personal list of literature’s greatest achievements, so, yeah, enjoy the plunge. Whatever a bubble butt is, it seems like it would be a plate filler. ** Okay. Something came over me and I decided it would be a good idea to restore the post up there. Am I crazy? I think not? See you tomorrow.
Now available in North America 
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Hi!!
Ah, you’re planning to visit Danse Macabre so soon! I’m very excited to hear about it! And about the other ones too, in time. Universal Horror Unleashed looks crazy in the best possible way!
My fingers are staying crossed at least ‘til Monday then!
Exactly, yes – about the podcast. I’m sorry it’s out in the world.
Love hasn’t fully satisfied my journal-related desires yet, but he did lead me to a couple gorgeous ones yesterday, so I’m considering that a good start. I’m obsessed with notebooks and journals in general, but sometimes I have very specific ideas that are hard to find.
At first, I had absolutely no idea what I was reading. 😀 This sucks a lot; I’m so sorry you wasted 6,000 coins! How much time and effort does it usually take to collect that many? Love feeling thirsty but too lazy to go get a glass of water, Od.
Hi Dee! Incredible interview, well deserving of a day. The miniature house sculptures a couple days back were totally fucking incredible, really inspiring, thanks for that! How are you? I’m okay, was sick for a while, and now i’m better but very low on energy which is ugh-y. i ‘moved into’ the gallery this week! feels really good to get started. gonna paint this weekend with some friends, but it’s a huge space and needs 2 coats so we’ll see if i can finish this week. one of the rooms is gonna be a semi-dark powdery blueish purple and the other a kind of beige/sand/light brown colour. i was at the ceramics workshop yesterday picking up some stuff that had been glazed and fired, one thing turned out great and the other disastrous. it’s so hard to know what you’re gonna get when you glaze. especially when you make your own glazes instead of using store bougth ones. glazed a couple sculptures that will be finished next week so fingers majorly crossed for those. today i’m staying home, i’ve cleaned the apartment, and a friend i haven’t seen in a long time is coming over in a bit. tell me all about your day? xxx k
10:16 as I start this – morning Dennis. I type this to the muffled noise of engineering things filtering through my headphones’ music, because 1) since my history teacher is ill YET AGAIN (there is some sort of plague going round the humanities block at college) I am still at home when I would usually be leaving about now, and 2) the house is having electricity things done, so I’ve had to put up with random men in my house as I potter about with my laptop and tea. Quite awkward. Perhaps I should show them the wonders of the blog?
Yet another post about someone I knew nothing about – Babitz, that is. Duchamp I know insofar as I know Nude Descending A Staircase because it’s mentioned in Frank O’Hara’s poem ‘Having A Coke With You,’ which I really love.
‘he’s always thinking up ways to get girls to take off their clothes.’ – snrk, snicker, sounds like modern art to me.
‘I wanted Julian to take me to a Chinese restaurant.’ – she had her priorities in order! What’s your stance on Chinese food? I for one am an utter fiend for it.
Babitz as an interviewee is more plausible to me than Cohen was; this was awkward to read, just like how human communication is awkward, so, confusion = truth, indeed.
Google tells me it’s 11:25am in Paris – I don’t know why I giggled that, I already know that France is an hour ahead, since I have had a ~ correspondence ~ (dalliance, maybe? But he seems set on long-term plans involving us, so wrong word maybe) with another in France for 2 months or so, by now. Anyway, here’s the already too long comment x)
‘S’okay, whatever people enjoy, good for them. I’m not a very out-there guy; answering a question in class is usually enough excitement for me. Rocketing up and down on colossal metal frames is more than I can take. Glad the Venn diagram of our opinions overlaps re: grandmas!
How the Hell did I forget Dennis Wilson? Brian usually comes to my mind most. Lord, the Beach Boys are good, aren’t they? God Only Knows is gorgeous, easily one of the best songs of all time, I should listen soon-ish. Save for the obvious ones, my fav tracks by them are Disney Girls and Caroline, No. Pet Sounds is I’m afraid besmirched by Sloop John B. I do not like Sloop John B.
Pfft, Grindr without the grinding. FruitfulConversationWithInterestingPeople-r. I’ve never dipped my toes into the world of ‘dating’ apps myself (1yr yet) but they sure seem fascinating. Grindr is of course home to many funnies. ‘Fart Slave’ and ‘Daddy wants to take you to the woodshed.’ have provoked much laughter. Not that I am kink-shaming, duh. I delight in the kaleidoscopic variety of fetishes out there.
Unsure if we’re ever to bump into each other. I don’t imagine it’s super likely? Possibly for the best, since I’m a whole lot more awkward in person and probably lack what charisma my words on a screen can conjure.
Videogame villains – this Paper Mario, still? I don’t know if I can remember the last videogame villain I hit. Quite probably some Pokémon on Pokémon violence. You’re still hitting the buttons – that’s got to register on the Hitometer(TM).
Thanks. So far, mood is holding up, thanks to tea, music, and not having to go in as early as usual, and various cutesy conversation I’ve been lucky enough to have directed towards me (somehow). Always nice to know I’ve people in my corner :]
You and France sound like me and England. Travel-wise I think I need to give Paris a go, and go to Venice before I die. Thomas Mann just *really* sold it, cholera and Tadzio and all!
Also, thanks for giving Joseph a shout – I was aware of the Schism press, but not that their stuff was up digitally for free. Awww yeah B) and an obvious well done to Joseph! I really hope that doesn’t come off as condescending.
Final query before I sign off w/ you – if this blog’s a house, what kind of room do I get? I’d like a balcony, maybe some French windows, if it’s not too much of a hassle xp
Tschuss, D-Dawg – cheers to a slightly better than usual Thursday, hopefully!
P.S., jay, yo. Forever excited to see what kind of emotional states adulthood has in store for me (The lights just went out because of electricity work being done – this seems an ominous portent). Fanservice/ecchi stuff is one of the big things keeping me from ‘getting back into’ anime. Why bother with softcore porn when you might as well just go the whole hog?
I used to be a half-decent Fortnite player. Absolute menace with a hunting rifle, I was. Alack I am now a retired veteran.
Cross-pollination is a nicer way to word it than what I’d choose – cross-contamination. Of course, I indulge plenty in the modern stupidity of teens, but even then, I’m struggling to keep up. Memes have a far shorter lifespan than I recall them having.
Ugh, yes, the homogeneity, the ‘let’s make this one piece of media THE THING(TM) for a short amount of time then move on!’ The speed at which people take newly popular characters, slap a pride flag behind them, and make that their profile picture is incredible. I don’t know enough about Mouthwashing. Hashtag not like the other boys, hashtag I’d rather be reading Waugh, etc. I wish people would fucking *SHOW* their unique interests instead of dipping just enough into the mainstream to have superficial conversation about it. I’m wary of sounding like Holden Caulfield deriding phonies, as teens are wont to doing.
Guy on my table in geography yesterday showed me a meme about a chap in VR accidentally entering/consuming gay porn, so, weirdly relevant happening there. Synchronicity, much?
smiledog is such a funny image to me. He’s just so happy! Amused that it scared my younger brother so much. What’s meant by the jumpscare at the end? I’ve never really ‘read’ creepypasta, just, absorbed it via cultural osmosis.
My father is as flawed as we all are and we have our arguments as any father and son will, but I really do have him to thank for the person I am today. My brother is much more like mother.
I must now ask you what some of your favourite books are.
What are some of your favourite books?
jayvourites.
The real world is annoying in how complicated it is, so I like books because I can understand them better, or, understand why they can’t be understood. Life isn’t quite as satisfying, it just fucks with everything, and not quite in the way I can pick apart with literary analysis.
Haven’t read Batailles. In the song ‘The Past Is a Grotesque Animal’ by of Montreal, there is a lyric mentioning him: ‘I fell in love with the first cute girl that I met/Who could appreciate Georges Bataille.’ Which I think is not a great lyric.
Boring in an interesting way, hrm. I think I’ve had enough boredom in my life. But I know there’s more to come (2hrs of geog. this afternoon, pah). Best with your Thursjay.
Poecilia, 1) how’d you come up with your name? and 2) never heard of Ride the Cyclone, so thanks for giving me something to check out. I didn’t know Magnus Archives was an SCP thing? But I’m fully up to date with it, and I LOVE Night Vale! I’m trying to be up to date, I’ll get there eventually. And I hope you don’t mind, but I’m possibly pondering shooting you an email? I’m not sure if I could work snailmail, but I’m always down for super long emails being exchanged at regular-ish intervals – it’s the superior mode of communication, imho. Best with *your* ThursDay!
11:10am. I appear to have typed for about an hour. Woops.
1.) Taxonomy name of an aquarium fish. 😀 “and the holograms” is partly 80’s glam rock Saturday cartoon reference, but mostly because when I write fiction then the characters take on a life of their own like they backtalk me in my own imagination or they rebel against the plot, but they tend to have a gauzier texture than corporeal people, so I call them holograms.
2.) Here‘s a promo reel of ‘Ride the Cyclone’, it’s probably your worst fears about amusement park rides come true, and then worsened because the afterlife is a reality game show. The Magnus Archives isn’t affiliated with the SCP, but I think it has the same episodic feel while also being distressingly imaginative with the horrors that make up each monster of the week. If you like SCPs and Welcome To Night Vale, I think you might really like The Magnus Archives.
E-mail away! What you wrote to jay, ‘I like books because I can understand them better, or, understand why they can’t be understood. Life isn’t quite as satisfying, it just fucks with everything, and not quite in the way I can pick apart with literary analysis.’ Definitely the same here. I tried to list the points that make up Media Literacy for an essay because everyone on the microblogging sites complains that nobody else has any (without defining what that even is)—and then I realized that those literacy skills should expand to and apply to news media and advertising, because that’s how I was taught media literacy back when I was in high school. Some part of me sort of started internally screaming, which is silly, because what’s the point if it’s not a skill set applicable to real life? (The definitions or rubrics I wrangled for the thing so far go: access; ethics of media production such as labor rights; contextualization; form; subtext generated by the form but not the same thing as that thing; rhetorical purpose that isn’t the same thing as subtext; and conversational conduct, because like…stabbing Salman Rushdie because the assailant didn’t like a book he wrote is not good literary analysis on the stabbystabber’s part…)
Yeah, I get what you mean about anime. I have a bit of a soft spot for that stuff, it’s just so bizarre and out of left field that I often find it amusing. Fortnite is one that’s sort of passed me by, I think. I know what you mean about superficial conversation – I think I’m lucky enough to avoid that, the conversations my friends have about mainstream topics at least tend to have unique perspectives.
Hmm, the smiledog jumpscare requires a little bit of context, so just skip over what I’m about to say if you already know the story. [The story revolves around a haunted jpeg of a smiling dog, that – once seen – inhabits people’s subconscious minds and dreams, making them more and more anxious and psychotic, until they either go insane, or “pass on” the curse to another person by showing the image.] The bit of writing (which, up until this point is exclusively text) ends abruptly with a short apology from the writer, followed by the jpeg itself (with no warning). The surprise might be ruined a bit by having seen the image before, but the first time I read the story, it took me half a second to realise I was looking at the “cursed image”.
Hmmm… favourite books is tough. Moby Dick would be up there, as well as anything by Thomas Ligotti – particularly “Songs of a Dead Dreamer”. Kobo Abe’s “Woman in the Dunes” would also be up there, I think that book may have changed my perspective on life more than anything else I’ve experienced. I’d have to only include one book by you-know-who, and it’d probably be “I Wished”, that book has a super special place in my heart. You’re right, that is a bizarrely bad lyric – I agree with the sentiment, though. I also loved “Brainwyrms” by Rumfitt, but I read that recently, so it’s still settling a little in my memory – but I think it’ll probably be one of my favourites.
Anyway, enjoy/tolerate/circumvent your boring afternoon. See ya!
Dennis, Omg, now I think the two previous ones were escorts! Kidding. 😛 But hell, who knows? First one was definitely a slut, come to find out.
Pretty much the same for me re: social media. Email, checking up on what friends are doing from time to time, news. I don’t post much.
My mom’s birthday today. She’s 82. Kayla’s coming over with her best friend, Layci. I made stuffed shells, and we’ll have cake and ice cream. Probably some videogames too. Typical Wines birthday.
Hey Dennis! Yeah, I’ve heard the same about Alton Towers/Thorpe, I may have to go sometime. I totally know what you mean about wanting to ask these people about why they catfish as celebrities – but I’m sure they’d be scared off, or embarrassed, so you wouldn’t get an answer I think. I really wish there was some magical way to compel people to understand you aren’t being judgemental, or something like that.
Emo night was excellent! I think it’s all second-generation emo, so “passing” wasn’t really a thing – nobody there was an “actual emo” (imagine that phrase coated in a magical substance that stops it from being perceived as judgemental), so it was a really fun experience. I ended up wearing this really funny shirt of like, a hyper-real skeleton doing a cutesy anime-girl esque pose, as well as the usual spiked collar / wrist straps, skinny jeans, eyeliner, et cetera. It was a great evening, only really ruined by wearing skinny jeans in the rain, so I spent about 20 minutes flensing them from my legs. There was also a guy at the club who was wearing a Marbled Swarm shirt, but he ended up leaving before I could say anything. But yeah, an amazing night!
I agree, mostly, about Love is the Devil. I’d put it closer to amazing than good, I felt like it really got astoundingly close to representing his art on film. There were a few scenes (particularly the scene where blood from a boxing match is splashed on his face, triggering this insane vision of a man crawling along a wire) that were just spectacular to me. It really felt like a great tribute to Derek Jarman’s Caravaggio, in terms of the attempts to represent both memory and visual art. I am a bit of a Bacon obsessive though, so I may be biased. Anyway, see ya!
Duchamp has been a long time hero of mine, while Babitz is definite hero material now. The photo is wonderful and thank you for this interview!
Now that winter is kicking in, the NHS here is warning of a ‘quad-demic’ as flu, Covid, norovirus and respiratory syncytial virus (RSV) are all sweeping England. Because I have MS, that makes me especially vulnerable. Tomorrow morning I’ll be going out for brunch with my family while wearing my new CDG Mickey Mouse hat for extra protection.
i may or may notve gotten cloudflared, so if this posts twice. i am deeply sorry.
skibidi hello dennis and all of the people hiding underneath my website bed reading my messages.
relatively early this time, well seven am is early but you get what i mean. i hope. currently reading two people really upset at each other but they are clearly having an argument due to the fact they are not at all getting what the other is trying to say. so i really do hope. i’ll try to write something up on the post later in the blog post cycle, i got specifics in my head but the wording escape me.
i’m listening to the podcast, sorry. christopher is really familar to me but idk why. drab podcast, you are right. i would record a podcast myself to balance this back, but all of my friends are too not movie watching or too busy spouting wisdom or tenderqueer to get the two. so it goes so it goes.
so i got auctioned off yesterday… in final fantasy xiv, don’t worry in real life. friends went to a place, mostly just to see if there was anyone who was a good enough player to help them beat the latest high tier end game boss battle. but sign ups were still open. so uh. of course i was gonna do it.
basically i presented my self; mediocre at almost everything, other then sometimes i can take cool pictures in the game. i was sold for a million, i guess my character is that cute. though the rest were both way better, and possibly hotter idk, they got sold for like five mil or ten mil. people just have in game money to throw away. a lot of their introductions and showing off reminded me of the slaves day. maybe i should’ve have taken some pictures of them just in case, could’ve made — nat presents: ‘ruin my beloved character after you make me carry you to a win’, slaves of final fantasy xiv. — a post, lmao. wonder if anyone of them have read the sluts now.
my temporary owner was shocked at me being male(-adjectant), becuse i have an inkling a majority of the people playing the cute boys in this game are female players. she’s cool though, even if she made me do an roleplay thing involving a car battery and cbt, i should’ve expected that when i signed up to get auctioned away. neat experiences. she’s also asking me to make some bsdm pics of my boy — i actually decided redo my character, i should send him later if i feel up for it. i dont think he has a bubble butt, he just has two valleys. — so, that’s what i’m doing today.
‘No, you’re right about the realities usually being a step down, but sincerely sought high ambitions that fail are the best that humans can achieve and expect, it could be argued.’; gosh this is so beautiful and true that i want to hang it on my wall whenever i get too negative or inconsiderate of the process. now i gotta consider how i should get it done. ‘imagination reels’, should also hang up that. honestly, which publisher is cool enough to make ‘selected dennis cooper blog replies’ a thing.
not much else, i think, later nat has to pick up that slack, sorry me!
hello nat from me ‘neath your website bed (but not hiding, i am loudly and obviously under your bed; i have barged in, barged out, and now i barge beneath in my quest to barge all prepositions)
just gonna wave you at above the bed.
oh, christopher is the artist formerly known as danny wylde. duh, no wonder he sounded familiar.
ill do short answer instead. currently watching a replay of the ongoing world chess championship, so chess has been on my mind for a while. so in short, i’ve been seeping in this interview. eve babitz is cool as all hell, her wording here is like sharp as icicles and duchamp is duchamp.
p sure this specific photograph inspired a thing in a book / play / movie — been a while, so i got no clue what it was, and the txt files are most likely in a destroyed pc — where the protagonist was playing his kidnapper — or might have just been a willingly destrustive relastionship – – who was in the nude. i forgot specifics after that, probably something playing on how the nude person is actually in power. always liked that imagery. but i dunno, now i’m wondering if i still have any files of that left. or hell maybe i should start something back based in the chess world. so it goes.
that should be all i swear!
Hey Dennis
I’m enjoying Snowflake at the moment. There’s a lot of places in Dublin mentioned that I know well(ish) and I enjoy having little memories pop up while I’m reading. It’s pretty easy to read too, I’m about a third of the way through just from reading it at coffee shops and on buses.
That was another thing yesterday actually; had to go back into the city to drop off some stuff, and I really did not want to do it because it was such a hassle. The buses are completely unreliable, and something that really should’ve taken about 40mins to an hour ended up taking my entire afternoon and evening. It was lashing rain and windy too so I was just miserable waiting long periods for buses that were delayed, and it’s days like this that make me feel ready to finally leave Cork and move somewhere with reliable transportation and a bit of liveliness…
What’s it like living in Paris? I’ve been considering it for a while, especially after visiting by myself last year. I know a few people over there too which would make the move easier, though the thought of leaving Cork and starting fresh in a new place is both exciting and exhausting. I’d love to go somewhere that doesn’t feel as small and empty as Cork, but there’s something so comforting about knowing everything about a place, like it’s streets and inhabitants and best locals.
I’m minding my dog today as both my parents are gone and she is a very untrustworthy little thing, but thats fine as it gives me a good reason to sit down and read for the day. Otherwise I’m just going to fuck around and put off doing essay work.
The suggestion about carrying a sign saying Dennis is funny, I think I might actually consider that. I hope that my rambles in person will be charismatic and interesting in person as you said they were on here.
About to have a shower coz I feel dirty from lounging in my pajamas, feed little Jackie O, and go get some coffee + read some more of Snowflake. I got my dad into watching Real Housewives of Salt Lake City too when he was a bit drunk and he enjoyed it, so that specific show is now an entire family affair!
Hi! Sorry I should have explained the National Gallery thing better, I was a bit sleep deprived. Yeah, my mind forgot the word ‘reading’ and apparently I was tired enough to convince myself that I was Sarah Bernhardt, so I said ‘perform’. I think my mind got muddled because I had a lecture on performance poetry recently. But it will be interesting (if I get a submission in on time). It will be held in one of the actual galleries so it’s a cool setting.
I love Eve Babitz, I’ve read most of her books. As a Los Angelean yourself (you are right? I’m not making that up am I?) what do you make of her depiction/version of LA? I know for a lot of people she dispelled the idea that LA is vapid and evil or something.
I’ve always wanted a print of her playing chess with Duchamp. It’s interesting that she’s had this big resurgence in the last couple of years. I mean, Kardashians have been seen reading her books and she’s considered a cool writer to be seen reading. I hope that doesn’t put some people off reading her. It’s interesting how resurgences can happen like that though, and it’s obviously great that people are reading her. It’s a shame that she apparently got radicalised by Rush Limbaugh towards the end.
Out of curiosity I listened to some of that podcast you and Dominik were talking about. I know they probably meant well but they really didn’t know what they were talking about but acted like they were. The whole thing felt like a conversation that goes on for too long at a party and you’re trying to find an exit cue. The part that annoyed me was when they were implying that you were some perverted lunatic mad genius. One of them admitted that he’d only read ‘Frisk’. I think if he read ‘God jr’ the pod would have been very different. The other annoying bit was that they were making fun of you for not having many women in your films. I don’t want to dogpile but that did piss me off a bit, and they were sort of cruel at certain points.
Hi. Yeah, busy is busy indeed. Sort of spent most of yesterday relaxing thankfully—watched my first Jia Zhangke film and dyed my hair—but I have so much stuff to do today to make up for it. I have a psychiatrist appointment later I’m kind of dreading. But how are you? Keeping my fingers crossed for the potentially positive film related news you mentioned. Are there any substacks you especially recommend? Made one yesterday, I’ll share it once I’ve uploaded my new short story there. Have a nice Friday, xoxo