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This fall I’ll be teaching a creative writing workshop on short stories for the first time in about 20 years. I’d like to ask you, my friends who write, to give me the benefit of your advice–for free–by asking a few questions. If you are kind enough to answer them, why not do so as soon as you find time? Short, fast answers are much better for me than long deliberation.
Help me!
What short stories (and writers) do you think of as models, or ideal? Why?
What are some great online magazines or resources for people interested in short fiction?
Any great collections or anthologies of short fiction?
What have you had to learn as you wrote?
What’s the worst thing to do in short fiction?
Would you like to give this class an assignment?
If you’ve taught or taken a fiction-writing workshop or class:
What can a fiction workshop can do?
What makes a fiction workshop work?
Any exercises that really make a difference?
Any exercises or other activities that seem a complete waste of time?
What’s an exercise or experiment in writing fiction you’d like to try?
—-
*
p.s. Hey. So, today d.l. Bernard, the blog, and I ask for a little more access to your brain and a little extra something from the time you spend here. Please respond to any or all of Bernard’s queries, if you can and don’t mind. It would be of great help to him, and any thoughts and answers you can spare will be very greatly appreciated by Bernard, and by me too. Thanks a lot, everybody! ** Misanthrope, Hey. Oh, there’s probably some destructive force in my c.v., but it’s never intentional, I promise that. Well, if you believe the news, especially lately, the US is positively rampant with seductress teachers, so I’ll expect to see Davey sitting in some witness stand with a pixelated face any time now. I had lots of sex in middle school, but, hey, I’m Dennis fucking Cooper. Nothing too porn worthy, though. I predict he has pubes like a stray dog. ** Allesfliesst, Well, in that case I’ll send my henchmen off to you on the next plane east. Hardly any dialogue in any of Tati’s films, at least in my memory, and almost zip in ‘Playtime.’ I think I’m in love with your Buddha. I think my atheist days might have just drawn to a conclusion. ** David Ehrenstein, From what I’ve read — and thank you very kindly for the links to those reviews — the degree to which the ‘leftover footage’ is being judged primarily as such is a glass half-empty or half-full thing. I’m dying for it. And it just nailed down a French distributor, so, yes! ** Statictick, Hey, N! Yay, you’re fully reconnected! I know almost shit about this stuff, but aren’t there other ways to test you than an MRI? Or is an MRI the Zeus of medical tests? Dude, seriously, keep those spirits up. That’s very, very important. Lots of love, man. ** Jebus, Hi. English and Philosophy, very nice. Long term and deep input, that’s great. Well, yeah, I think that generalization about kids today being more self-absorbed, etc. than kids of the past is absolute and total bullshit. I think that’s just fear of aging, of the future, of death manifesting itself re: the easiest and least deserving of targets. When people say shit like that, I think it’s just embarrassingly self-incriminating. Same with the stuff about popular music not being as great as it used to be and the stuff about a life full of texting and the internet being a lesser kind of life and all of that stuff. I think that’s just cynicism at work, and cynicism is just a fancy name for conservatism. Or something. Oh, awesome, thanks for the link to your music. I’ll have a listen when I get done with the p.s. Yeah, thanks much, I really appreciate the share. ** Math tinder, Math! Well, it must have been to have dragged your amazing ass back in here. Any chance for a ‘how’re you doing” and ‘what’s going on”? ** Cobaltfram, Hey, John. I think if you can use an opportunity like an article to try to advance your practice and art, always take it. You know, always aim highest and then pull back if you have to and, worst comes to worst, you’ll end up both progressing aesthetically and getting a new sense of your own limitations, the form’s, and the form’s conventional audience’s. Fingers crossed. Let me know Ross’s reaction. Poem fest! Terrific! I’ll join in starting today. Everyone, a cool alert and gift kind of thing from Cobaltfram. Here he is: ‘The other night at work, it was super slow, and I scribbled out some poems. Some of them are super short and sort of ephemeral, but I figured I’d type them all up. They’re scheduled to post on my Tumblr over the next couple of days. If you’re interested, you can keep track of them here.’ Join me in keeping my eyes all over that, everyone, won’t you? Thanks for the ‘SIMP’ progress report, too. Sounds most promising. Oh, right, Labor Day. That’s why there weren’t any new reviews on Pitchfork yesterday. Tiny mystery solved. ** 5STRINGS, Hey. Can’t agree with you on Rick Astley, yuck, but what do I know? He wasn’t a mega-star because of the quality of his constructions, god knows. Heap on the road, yes, now you’re talking. Yeah, Labor Day, I totally spaced on that, like I told the cobalt one. That’s why half the American news stories yesterday were about unions. ** _Black_Acrylic, Hi, Ben. Good move on the fundraiser page. I actually popped in here last night, saw your link, and watched the video. What a totally awesome bunch of folks you Y&Y; people are. Such an interesting group of distinct, cool people. Being able to put faces and voices, etc. to the project is only total boon. Anyway, I’m going to go contribute to the cause right now. Hold on. This’ll take a minute. Done. And now … Everybody, While the blog is in this helping out mode today, how about spreading some love and generosity towards d.l. _Black_Acrylic and the great zine project that he co-edits? I just did my part. How about you? Here’s _B_A to explain: ‘The Yuck ‘n Yum AGK now has a page at Sponsume which is here. There’s a video where you can see the Yuck ‘n Yum team in the flesh! Also, anyone who chips in £ for the 2012 AGK will get their names added to our sponsors song. So we’ll sing your name at the AGK, just imagine that!’ Go, go, go! ** Chris Dankland, Hi, Chris. I did see that thing on Alt Lit Gossip, and also Frank Hinton’s great, longish thoughts on the matter. Yeah, you understood what I meant. I foresee or at least worry about the polluting of Alt Lit that will come when the establishment begins to define it, and when that definition is standing between the scene and writers and their intentions vis-a-vis the readers/writers at large, and what will happen when the establishment begins to pick and choose writers and people in the scene as its stars or as its most talented members based, undoubtedly, on traditionalist notions of what constitutes good versus bad literature. It’s inevitable that the scene won’t be able to completely control their identity and message in a pure way. And what will happen will be interesting and a real test and all of that. It’s like, I wonder what being a ‘Beat’ writer was like before the media got a handle on ‘the Beats’ and declared it to be a phenomenon at large, and the public image of ‘the Beats’ became gentrified and then cemented in that gentrified form, and that reductive image began to affect not just readers’ perception of the writers’ work and their scene but the writers and their efforts too. Worst case scenario? Maybe either that Alt Lit will become recognized, branded from the outside, and hyped as the official literary alternative, i.e. ‘alternative rock’ back in the ’90s, leading to a select group of writers and magazines and sites that will become stars based not on their importance to the scene and influence within it, but based on the flashiness of their acceptability, or that Alt Lit will be dismissed in a general way as lightweight and a fad and not literary enough, etc., whereupon the scene might develop from that point on in reaction to that dismissal, which could cause either a defiant solidification of whatever its aesthetic is at that point, thereby stunting its growth, or perhaps an impetus to meet the challenge to prove itself as ‘serious’, leading to a distortion within the work and the scene caused by an external imposition rather than a natural evolutionary process. I guess those seem like the worst case scenarios to me off the top of my head. Obviously, great idea for you to get your work seen in a variety of places. I think it’s important to be as ambitious as you can. And, yeah, being patient and letting the work itself determine the pace at which you finish books and gain recognition, etc. is really paramount. I think you know my trajectory as a writer. It was gradual and had highs and lows and lots of surprises, and I worked hard all the time and believed as completely as I could in my work and that I would get better and that what I did would be recognized, and I wasn’t ready to publish a novel until I was in my late 30s, which seems late to a lot of young writers, but it didn’t feel late, and the lateness didn’t matter at all. I think your optimism about Alt Lit is beyond justified. Like I’ve said before so many times, this is the most exciting and promising and quality-rich time in American lit that I’ve ever seen, and I’ve paid close attention to that kind of stuff since I was a teenager. Dude, the comment was so not long. Total pleasure and stimulation, and thanks, man. ** Aaron Kaye (formerly Hayden Derk), Hi, Aaron! Okay sounds good enough. A cold storage freezer … like moving things around and in and out and stuff? Or, I don’t know. I sort of have this cold freezer interest, I guess from horror movies, although the house where I grew up had a huge cold storage freezer in the basement that didn’t work, so maybe that. Yeah, I’m excited to read your new work whenever you’re ready to air it. Just let me know. It’s great to have you back, man. ** Kyler, Thank you, Kyler. It’s a pleasure and a big help. ** Sypha, ‘The Expendables 2’ is really charming, like I said. Total, deliberate, mostly sincere throwback to ’80s action movies, kinda meta, kinda ironic at times, ultra-violent in the way contemporary action movies aren’t anymore, super sentimental, … yeah, I don’t know why it works so well, but it did. Enjoy Madonna tonight. No doubt it’ll be a big, fun show. Tell me how it was. ** Ken Baumann, Ken! Oh, that tweet, ha ha. Dude, the word honor is barely the twinkle in the eye of how honored I would be to have my work exist in your voice. That said, I don’t think Grove Press has the slightest interest in lifting even the tip of a finger re: my books, at least for now. Can’t hurt to get my agent to query them, though. Thank you, man, whatever the case. ‘Neuromancer’, nice! So excellent, no? I kind of love that whole trilogy, although I guess ‘Neuromancer’ is probably the best of the three. I kind of decided to save ‘Cosmopolis’ for a future plane ride or DVD + bored night, and that sounds about right, no? You should see ‘Holy Motors’ when it opens there. That was the biggest eye opener I’ve seen in the last months. ‘The Master’ for sure. Very curious to see that one. Be with Tuesday in a big way, pal. ** Postitbreakup, Hi, Josh, It was nice, yeah. That’s okay, just concentrate on getting past the breakdown, man, promise me. I know that you know, man, I think you just need to find the way to remember that you know, and you will. ** Right. Please help Mr. Bernard Welt out today. Any little help you can give him would be a big help. Thanks, you guys. See you tomorrow.
Now available in North America 
(couldn’t get any sleep last night, I’m up really early)
What short stories (and writers) do you think of as models, or ideal? Why?
Flannery O’Connor, because her sentences are so visual and concrete, and are all always doing at least two things at once in terms of advancing the story and building up meanings—James Purdy, because he writes short stories that can disorient the reader really quickly and make me feel like I somehow got lost in a dream i.e. “Lily’s Party” & “Plan Now to Attend”—early James Joyce, because each sentence is so heart-breaking and perfect and sharply crystalized, amazing ear for language
What are some great online magazines or resources for people interested in short fiction?
Pangur Ban Party, MuuMuu House, Metazen, Shabby Doll House
Any great collections or anthologies of short fiction?
The Collected Works, Vol 1 by Scott McClanahan, The Stories of Breece D’J Pancake, Jesus’ Son by Denis Johnson, Donald Barthelme’s stories, Invisible Cities by Italo Calvino (if you think of that book as short fiction, I’m not sure if it is)
What have you had to learn as you wrote?
The importance of letting stories sit and letting your mind get away from them, so you can pick them up later and look at them with more objective eyes…the importance of writing every day and how writing is like exercise, you have to keep your muscles in shape and think about the long-term…don’t expect to break the 4 minute mile the first time you try to run, you have to work up to that…the importance of being really patient and really impatient at the same time…don’t smoke weed until after you’re done writing for the day…also this quote from “Saving Robert Kenndy from Drowning” by Donald Barthelme means so much to me:
"Sometimes I can't seem to do anything. The work is there, piled up, it seems to me an insurmountable obstacle, really out of reach. I sit and look at it, wondering where to begin, how to take hold of it. Perhaps I pick up a piece of paper, try to read it but my mind is elsewhere, I am thinking of something else, I can't seem to get the gist of it, it seems meaningless, devoid of interest, not having to do with human affairs, drained of life. Then, in an hour, or even a moment, everything changes suddenly. I realize I only have to do it, hurl myself into the midst of it, proceed mechanically, the first thing and then the second thing, that it is simply a matter of moving from one step to the next, plowing through it. I become interested, I become excited, I work very fast, things fall into place, I am exhilarated, amazed that these things could ever have seemed dead to me."
Even if I don’t feel like writing, even if I’m exhausted, I know that if I just persist in doing it for an hour or two, I’ll eventually get into it and start feeling the groove
What’s the worst thing to do in short fiction?
I don’t know, maybe assuming that the reader will just automatically or naturally “get” what you’re trying to say…assuming that the reader is more or less like you, with your tastes and sensibilities
Would you like to give this class an assignment?
I can’t think of any, but I’m very curious about the differences in how people read a print book versus online writing…
If you’ve taught or taken a fiction-writing workshop or class:
(took a couple creative writing classes as an undergraduate)
What can a fiction workshop can do?
give you a set of attentive readers, which can be a huge motivation in and of itself…give you a really good reading list…show you the almost endless diversity of writers and readers in the world…give you “new eyes” in terms of looking at your own stuff, seeing your writing through many different perspectives
What makes a fiction workshop work?
One thing I noticed about myself in workshops (I was also an undergrad, really young) was that I would attach myself to either the professor of maybe a few people in the class, and start writing either to please them (if I liked them) or piss them off (if I didn’t)…I think my tendency at the time was to rebel, and at a certain point I started writing certain things purely because I knew it would enrage and piss off certain people…that was kind of fun sometimes, but ultimately probably not good for my writing…I was writing for other people’s expectations instead of writing for my own…but that’s something that has more to do with me, I don’t know if that helps
Any exercises that really make a difference?
We didn’t really do any writing exercises…but I really benefited from reading other people’s work and commenting on them
Any exercises or other activities that seem a complete waste of time?
What’s an exercise or experiment in writing fiction you’d like to try?
Sam Pink once talked about doing a novelization of Home Alone, I think it’d be fun to try doing something like that sometime (@7:00) http://vimeo.com/33086820
This comment has been removed by the author.
also good luck with your class!
(another short fiction site I like a whole lot is Keep This Bag Away From Children)
What short stories (and writers) do you think of as models, or ideal? Why?
steven Milhauser – inventiveness
Joy Williams – Clarity
Would you like to give this class an assignment? Pick a writer you like and try to ape their style. Rewrite a short story by a writer in the style of another writer.
If you’ve taught or taken a fiction-writing workshop or class:
What can a fiction workshop can do? Make you take your own work seriously.
What makes a fiction workshop work? A good generous teacher, a respectful class room who are willing to read the work in the context it was written.
What's most important, Bernard, is that you impress the importance of literature on the little darlings.
Back when I was in high school in the middle of the last century we were aught "Paul's Case" by Willa Cather — a truly frightening story by a transgender with highly ambivalent feelings about gay men. Beautifully written (especially the last line) it should be taught with extreme caution.
Other short stories of import include "Bartleby" and "Billy Budd" by Herman Melville, "The Metamorphosis" by Franz Kafka, "Pages from Cold Point" by Paul Bolwes, "PLain Pleasures" by Jane Bowles, anything by E.A.Poe and S.Jj. Perlman, "The Anal_Retentive Line Editor" by Dennis Cooper and above all "The Law" by Robert M. Coates (for my money the most gobsmacking recit ever written.)
Oh and "The Turn of the Screw" by Henry James
Robert Coover's cave writing experiment bra. Dat's da bomb G. I'd get em to read unclassified DoD reports, soap opera scripts, translated j-pop, celeb gossip, neurology papers, exploration journals, blueprints for oil and gas construction projects, Hindu sacred texts, biographies of nuclear physicists, fighting instruction manuals, databases. You know, the classics. Bia!
Latest FaBlog: Hommage A Mary McCarthy
I found this book to be full of awesome writing exercises:
http://www.shambhala.com/a-book-of-surrealist-games.html
Deniiiis
First of all, I would just like to take credit for that now-infamous tweet RE the George Miles audiobooks. If it happens, I get dibs on Frisk. Kidding, of course: you deserve professionals on the project. But, if it turns into an amateur-friend-based thing, I'd truly love to. Reading aloud is one of my favorite things. I told you we read Blood Meridian aloud together, in its entirety?
Mr Welt: I'm sorry, but compared to the brilliant contributions listed above, I can think of only one other author whose short fiction is sublime whom I don't see listed here. Alice Munro is a god to me. She has written dozens of literally perfect stories, but if I had to list two, they'd be "Silence" from her book RUNAWAY, and "Comfort" from HATESHIP FRIENDSHIP LOVESHIP COURTSHIP MARRIAGE. The impact these stories have had on my life is intractable and deep.
Deniiis (again):
I sent the thing to Ross, so that should be fun. He said his inbox is currently flooded, so he probably won't get back to me until next week, which is fine. I have a couple little finicky things I'm going to send him on the proposal, and then I'm going to play with something I've had in my mind for awhile. I'm experimenting with working on something in complete secrecy. I really don't see anything wrong with telling people things about what you're working on, and I usually will respond with at least a vague idea. But with this, I want to play with it as long as I can in silence and see what happens. It's something entirely "fun." Work, of course (it's writing) but something where I'm just pursuing basic reading and writing pleasures.
But yes, I do hope you'll check out the Tumblr poem I have up right now. It's the one (The Flying J: http://cobaltfram.tumblr.com/post/30866968583/the-flying-j) that I'm sort of surprised by and proud of.
Do you like the band the xx? They're new thing is streaming on npr, if you can access that (http://www.npr.org/2012/09/03/160323435/first-listen-the-xx-coexist?sc=fb&cc;=fmp). I'm digging it so far.
Hope all is sublime, and I'll catch you tomorrow
JF
What short stories (and writers) do you think of as models, or ideal? Why?
Thomas Bernhard, because his perfect simplicity, precision, scence of humor.
Kjell Askildsen, his violence, truth, and cold poethic.
David Foster Wallace, his freedom, his anger.
Any great collections or anthologies of short fiction?
All Jorge Luis Borges.
What have you had to learn as you wrote?
Time, read a lot, personal experience.
What’s the worst thing to do in short fiction?
Trying to write a short novel. I thing it must be closer to a poem, a feeling, an idea, than a novel.
Oh yes, Borges is an excellent idea. Especially "Death and the Compass."
And while we're south of the border try Adolfo Bioy-Casares' "The Invention of Morel."
Hey, I missed Them at Tanzem im August. Just moved to Mexico City. Gonna fly to LA November 15 to see the performance at REDCAT. Cant wait!!!! By the way, have you watched Oslo, 31 august (Joaquim Trier) and Snowtown (Justin Kurzel)?
Dear Mr Welt,
Here are(is?) Wolfie's 2 pence:
– Models : Cortazar – because something truly extraordinary manages to result from a very traditional style (and, to some extent, setup), and because the stories stay with you. Fuck knows why. To be honest a lot of mezo/south-american writers' short stories do that to me. Luis Sepúlveda, Horacio Quiroga especially. Those in particular have the skill to convey the existential fear that comes from true confrontation with nature, and when i think of their work, i see deep primordial forests, semi-magical beasts, men who are brought back to something terrible in their condition. Maybe it's all the Jungian archetypal stuff that gets me.
I think something that will make a short story stay with me is, on top of the usual criteria (economy and thus precision of the language, natural but finely-crafted time-line and flow, the skill to bring the reader straight into something complex in a few lines/words) is the elemental subject-matter. The story can be of anything in particular, but the events/moment/situation it describes has to feel like it's symptomatic not only of a vaster construct, but also of my own, somehow. Archetype, again. Kindof like an old polaroid picture that has very little in it but that you can read and, perhaps more importantly, project, a lot in. Not in a boring superficial "oh, yeah, i've been dumped too, i can identify with this guy" way, but on a deeper, more existential level. Something that touches on the nature of our humanity and its limits.
Lately i've been reading a lot of Annie Proulx's short stories, and they also fit that bill, although very often the characters are far from the type one could easily identify with. That's another thing that is very important to me: a good character (or more than one). Hard to say what a "good" character is. But of all the short stories i've read, a hell of a lot, i remember none that had boring "mr everyone" characters in them. That's a mistake that i see so often, the choice of a bland, one-size-fits-all character. "So that everyone can identify"… Wrong. No one can.
Sorry, that one was a bit of a ramble.
I'll skip the resources ahnd collections questions.
– What have i had to learn : to get rid of the cliché constructions, to chisel every sentence (Economy, again. If it has to be at the expense of style, so be it. Unless you're James Ellroy). Timing. Timing, timing.
– worst thing to do : The Mr Everyone approach i mentioned above pisses me off, and i like a nice badass ending, whether closed or open. If your ending sucks, the whole story sucks.
– assignment : Think of the most interesting kid/friend at school, and try and imagine what they're doing now; transfer their personality into an adult's and chose a day in their now-life that encompasses who they are.
Actually, i read The Best American Noir of the Century, ed. by Ellroy, a few months ago, and a lot of it was seriously great. It's a really interesting mixture. I recommend it.
Ok, i just saw David_E mention The Dude's Anal Retentive Line Editor, and it's a good example of a fucking brilliant story that has no memorable character and i cant even remember how it ends, SO SUE ME!
But then, that Cooper guy never fits in my rules, goddamn him!
I guess if you can write something that is really witty and funny, you're exempt from the standard rules.
Bernard – The first thing that jumped into my head when I thought about the term ‘short story’ was Mann’s Death in Venice, so I guess maybe that means something. It stands out as a really great piece of work in my mind.
In terms of when I think of books of short stories, the first one that I thought of was Bret Easton Ellis’s The Informers, in which, even though they are interlinked, all the pieces definitely stand powerfully on their own.
Without wanting to embarrass our host here too much, I’d also put forward Ugly Man and Wrong. Kevin Killian’s Impossible Princess is great. Actually, both Ugly Man and Impossible Princess are totally fascinating to look at with regards to how the respective writers incorporate humour and comedy into their work, both in different ways. I haven’t read The Dubliners by James Joyce in years but, like Death In Venice, that book also sprung straight into my mind in terms of thinking about short stories. I remember at the time, a couple of those – perhaps the very first story in the book – having a really big emotional charge to them.
Hmmm, who else … oh yeah, in terms of recent stuff, it seems like Caketrain Press have a really good eye for finding some superb writers of short fiction, a couple books by them that I enjoyed: The Weather Stations by Ryan Call and also Cure All by Kim Parko.
I’m trying to think of what I use as models. I don’t know … a lot of the time I find that there are a lot of times with short fiction (and also poems) that I’ve found myself taking clues or inspiration or whatever from visual art, photo’s especially. I’m not too sure why but thinking off the top of my head, it would make sense that I make the link between them both being snapshots, a temporary thing, emotion, moment, etc that’s been captured and displayed, something like that. Although I’d have to think a little more about that because I’m still not sure where my head is with that one.
Now I’m trying to think about what I’ve had to learn as I wrote. It’s funny – or perhaps it’s a common thing – that I feel like I learnt more about writing after I finished my degree in the subject at university. I guess some of the stuff I definitely found useful at Uni, were certain things about reading texts from other people, applying different readings to stuff, be it a post-modern understanding of a certain text or working out whether I felt like a certain text had an anarchistic reading to it and so on. In terms of my own writing, I dunno, I found university to be kind of a weird thing. I guess some of the most exciting stuff was just the opportunity to be exposed to more avant garde texts, stuff that I hadn’t heard of before.
What have I had to learn as I’ve wrote? I guess the most vital thing might have been learning to find my own voice or voices. Which I suppose came and still comes from learning how to tune what I write in with what I feel. And then in terms of mechanics, often that has been from working out just what it is – like, specific things – that I like or get excited by in the work of my favourite writers, and from there it’s thinking about which of those things I can learn from and take ideas to develop within the voices that I find myself capable of an equipped with.
I’ve definitely learnt things from reading interviews with writers that I like, which I guess is a really obvious thing, but a good interview with someone about their practice can be very exciting and helpful.
An exercise that I use quite a lot when I’m struggling with writing, is to just make a short piece of dialogue, a conversation between a couple or a few people, using only what the characters say to each other, nothing else, no description, nothing except for dialogue. For whatever reasons having purely speech and nothing else seems to help me come up with other ideas, I guess because the details that I’m working with are so vague and sparse and barebones that my imagination has nothing else to do aside from think of other stuff and flesh that could be added to the skeleton, or decorations for the frame to make it a little less bloody.
I dunno, I hope some of that is helpful Bernard. If I think of anything else related to short stories I’ll let you know.
Dennis – Hey man. Really interesting to read your conversation with Chris Dankland about Alt Lit and the related stuff. Hope you're doing good or as close to good as possible, if not better obviously. Today was my first day back at school after the summer break, it was ok, mainly just catching up on paperwork type things, and some training. The kids come back tomorrow, which I'm looking forward to. Then in the evening I'm going to see Perfume Genius play which I'm excited about. Right, happy Tuesday evening or Wednesday morning to you, depending on when you're reading this comment.
Thomas x
Freemason stuff. Engineering guides. User's manuals.
Oh shit, I am back in school too! How did this happen?!
Good luck B. Friends say yr a kick-ass teach.
Dennis:
I've sent an email about my sched this week and pretty much ongoing. I'll be available Tues, Thurs, and weekends. I feel tired already and the semester has yet to start.
Bernard:
One thing that's worked for me is to do some collaborative projects to help the class feel like a communal creative space. Sometimes the workshop critiques can create am edge. If you build community before that begins, it starts to feel supportive. Like this place, which has done such amazing work providing a safe space for people to create. I do a world building section using Greenaways The Falls.
I agree with Chris. Some Flannery O'Connor will do wonders to help them with grounding pod in stories.
John Cheever's The Swimmer does similar work.
I like Hills like White Elephants to talk about dialogue and how it can tell story. But you can and I do use anything of Dennis's to do that too.
Wolf's right about Cortazar. I like the Idol of the Cyclades to talk about "twist." "Secret Weapons" is also great.
Like TomKendall I like Joy Williams is great for building narrative organically and surprise. I like Congress and Charity out of her recent collection. And Mary Gaitskill's The Dentist is also great. It just keeps going!
I'd be happy to send syllabi your way if you want. Hit me up on Facebook and let me know.
Bernard, short and fast, hope these match up by number, but if not some help anyway.
1. I don't really think about short story writers as a category, prefer reading short things that fell more like fragments, whether they are or not. I was probably too polluted with the idea that you have to write short stories first before you can try a novel. I never liked that idea. Either way you look at it.
2. Yes, Metazen is doing great stuff, and getting much deserved recognition.
3. The collection that most blew my young mind (and not just because Dennis was in it!) was the High Risk anthology.
4. To listen to those instincts, and follow those obsessions, and read and write whatever you want.
5. Make it feel like short fiction.
6. Sure.
7. It gives a space for people to take writing seriously and to be with other people who take writing seriously, or if not seriously, seriously love writing.
8. When everyone respects each other's different opinions, talents, obsessions.
9. Writing straightforward unemotive, uncolorful description, like how to change a lightbulb or rewire a plug.
10. Difficult to say. Some will get something out of it, and some won't. I was always very driven in writing classes so it didn't matter.
11. My teacher once came in and read out a few sentences she'd written in the style of everyone in the class. She said she always did that because it helped her writing too. At first I thought it was a bit vampiric, but then I realized she was on an equal level of trying to figure out what works, playing with different voices etc, and it was also a good way to lose that kind of precious ownership. So maybe something like that, everyone writing in each other's style.
Dennis, hope things are good! Len brought back a Nintendo 3DS. Holy fuck, another world.
I got a press release about HOLY MOTORS today. It turns out that Denis Lavant is not traveling to the New York Film Festival to promote the film, but Kylie Minogue is. I would be interested in interviewing her for the Village Voice and have just pitched an article to the film editor there. If Kevin Killian's reading this, I can sense his excitement. Carax will be coming here and apparently doing press, but when his own publicist warns me about how difficult and taciturn he tends to be, I think interviewing the film's cast is a better idea.
Short story recommendations: anything by Borges or Kafka, Joyce's DUBLINERS, Kevin Killian's IMPOSSIBLE PRINCESS, Lynne Tillman's THE MADAME REALISM COMPLEX, Clive Barker's BOOKS OF BLOOD.
@ Bernard Welt, I've not experienced any English class since middle school, but the short stories I love are those that communicate an idea or a feeling succinctly. I'd have Kafka down as master of the form, and what stuns me is his precise balance of strangeness and humour. I've linked to this from here before, but this lecture by David Foster Wallace on the subject is really exemplary.
@ DC, thank you so much for your AGK shoutout and contribution, which is massively appreciated by all at YNY. We'll be sure to sing your name out loud and clear!
OOh my God, I was answering some of Bernard's questions and I looked up and down to see, not only a couple of people like my book (thank you boys) but that one of our own may actually be meeting with Kylie Minogue!!! It's crazy!!! But, I hope it happens and I'm sure you'll have a blast, Steve. She is known for not saying much of anything that she hasn't rehearsed. but you could press her on the miraculous thing about her (I think her saving grace) issue of how a pop star manages to blend so effortlessly with some of the weirdest concoctions of the avant-garde, for the last several decades. She's an inspiration to me and I'm super chuffed about what seems like a solid success for her. Especially in acting where (though I think she should have been awarded many Oscars) she has had some terrible flops. Anyhow cheers Steevee! As for you Bernard, here are a few answers to your first set of questions,
What short stories (and writers) do you think of as models, or ideal? Why?
You mean ideal for teaching? I had a great success a few years ago teaching Ben Marcus’’ anthology The Anchor Book of New American Fiction (or something like that). I assigned my students on or two stories a week, and each student would “present”one. I think the first story is George Saunders, “Sea Oak,” and the next Wells Tower’s Viking story “Everything Ravaged, Everything Burned.” The class was on a real high but almost immediately the book features a couple of duds. By the end of the class my students had a real voyage through the shoals of fiction, everything, character, plot, setting, tone, and also the sort of things Ben M. really loves. Another year we went through every story in the current Best American Stories book and that was a real eye opener too, particularly for savvy students interested in the demands of the market.
What are some great online magazines or resources for people interested in short fiction?
I’m not sure, Bernard, I don’t keep up the way I should perhaps.
Any great collections or anthologies of short fiction?
For anthologies, see above. It’s not that either book was a masterpiece but you will find them useful. For another course I did last year on Queer Writing, which was a cross genre course, I had great success with some old standbys, “Sonny’s Blues” by James Baldwin, “Processing” by Mary Gaitskill, “Dazzle” by Truman Capote, several stories by Lonely Christopher. We even had Lonely Christopher come to the class, and he judged a contest in which the students tried to write a Lonely Christopher story.
More to come….
Me again,
What have you had to learn as you wrote?
Oh my God, I had to learn so much! Most of all I had to learn to stop writing when I hit a bump. Spicer wrote, “If the taxi does not move it does not move/ Burn it as quick as you can.” I also had to get out of my comfort zone and do things I didn’t think were possible for me. It didn’t matter really if I did them well or not. Eventually you get better if you try everything, you can feel it, it’s like gaining muscular control.
What’s the worst thing to do in short fiction?
Is there anything that’s worse than any other thing? I actually can’t stand Alice Munro, or rather, she reduces me to giggles, and maybe that’s the worst thing, is to rain on another’s parade, for there is so little enthusiasm in the world we could nurture it wherever it grows.
Would you like to give this class an assignment?
In another class I gave an assignment that my students jeered at when they first heard it, but when they sat down to do the work, everyone did great. It’s an intervention and a conceptual project all in one. It’s especially good when you’re stuck, or when you have something difficult to write that you don’t feel emotionally up to. Write a story of 26 sentences. The first sentence begins with A, the second with B, or so on all the way to the end of the alphabet. If you aren’t done yet, start again with another round of the alphabet, but usually I find, 26 sentences tell the whole tale. My students challenged me to finish my own exercise, and I made it a chapter of Spreadeagle, and it’s still in the published novel. An online poetry zine published it, let me find it,
http://www.shampoopoetry.com/ShampooThirtytwo/killian.html
Oh, I forgot to mention the important part is to underplay the alphabetical part of the exercise. Ideally, the reader will finish it and not notice what you have done. So this calls for a lot of discretion when you get to the difficult sentences where you don’t want to show your hand. The Q sentence, the X, the Z, and so on. Anyway try it!
Dennis, thanks for posting Bernard's appeal today. It's the first evening of my own new class and this has given me a place to gather my thoughts. Love to you both from Kevin K.
Hey Bernard – Two key short story writers that aren't taught nearly enough: Julio Cortzar and Isaac Babel. I'd also echo recommendations for Barthelme, Borges, Flannery O'Connor, and Kafka. Paul Bowles for "A Distant Episode" and "Pages from Cold Point." Danilo Kis for "Encyclopedia of the Dead."
There's a comp called "The Art of the Tale" edited by Daniel Halpern that contains a lot of exceptional international fiction.
Not generally a fan of writing exercises, but one I had that was useful and seemed to excite the entire class was writing a short piece about a prize personal possession and then bringing that possession into class. A variation on show and tell that liberated a lot of conventionally minded students.
Hey Dennis – Backtracking, I loved the Tati post. I'm not sure if I've said this before, but I could see you writing a great Tati-esque inspired novel, drawing upon some of his mechanics. There seemed some elements of that in "God Jr" already, to my mind at least.
Recently read Michael Kimball's new one "Big Ray" which is outstanding. And a book about the making of Herzog's "Heart of Glass" which was pretty weird and wonderful. Anything you've been particularly enjoying?
Oh, and Robert friggin Walzer. That is actually the correct answer and the only one. Eyeshot is ok online. Diagram magazine is cool but only doing essays. Granta, obv. Paris Review, ditto, sometimes (like the DC interview). Ummmmm, all that Mcsweeney's stuff, still. Up here there are two good ones, Broken Pencil and Filling Station, the latter is pretty local, but you never know, the last editor was a brainy person with guts to boot. I don't send anything out ever but in a couple years I will.
Bernard,
Paul Bowles – ideal, but long-winded
Clive Barker – as way to cram
Luis Borges – alternative-view
Burroughs – conciseness
D.C. – badass/ blingin'
Science Fiction – page-filler/ points-of-structure
Horror – genealogy of the tale
Art in America/Art Forum? HTML Giant
Poppy Z. Brite's – Love In Vein
Margaritte Duras – Collected Stories
Hunter Thompson's letters
How to talk
Leave loose ends/ weird shapes in the design
No, I'd tell them to quit school
DC,
Come on man, RA, totally, dude's scrawny red-head, gotta love it. I like the idea of sleeping with weird 80's guys, don't know? I gotta get this thing to do like Christine, in good shape, but I need everything mint, like a garage-kept early 90's T-Bird or something. I'm not tired or depressed, but lazy and passive, very. LOL Labor Day, soon that'll be the only American Holiday. I used to be a union worker, made ridiculous amounts of money and all that, but unions are archaic, you gotta join the middle-class these days if you want all that stuff I guess. Anything interesting going on in Paris? I'll be studying then writing. If only I could have known you in middle-school, I was one hot Metal Head. LOL. Later Sk8tr
speaking of mainstream attention…did you see the NYT piece on Steve Roggenbuck? What did you think?
This is incredible, Dennis-blog people. I'm still in the midst of really long days but in a couple of days I'll be able to process it. You've offered me a lot of great stuff (that I can steal) and I know the class will be amazed when we look at your responses together.
One first response is that given how much overlap there is stuff I've put on the reading list or tried to squeeze in, I don't feel so much of a fuddy-duddy as I did (but how fuddy-duddy is it to say that?). My class is kind of classical, I think. But it's not only the practical suggestions; it's what you think transpires when people write and read fiction.
You are all my favorite writer.
More later. I'll check in with Dennis about how to maybe tell you how the class is going. It sounds like Gregory and Kevin may be teaching workshops this fall? If anybody else is, maybe we could exchange stuff. And if you want to Facebook me, Facebook me. If you have ideas past tonight, you can email me at [email protected].
Oh, and the class started last week with selections from Raymond Queneau's Exercises in Style and continues this week with Joe Brainard's I Remember. People are doing memory exercises and I've given them training in keeping a dream journal, which is suggested, not required. And next week is some Grimm's Fairy Tales and African folk tales, with exercises in retelling oft-told tales.
Thanks again and a big thanks to Dennis, who is always helping and inspiring me.
Hey Bernard, I've never taken a writing class, but like the Toms Kendall and Moronic, I love Joy Williams. In fact, when we hung out last summer in Paris, I'd just read her collection Honored Guest twice in less than 2 months.
Nikolai Fedorov is very nutty. Wow.
Bill
Hey, I could not get to a computer yesterday and so could not respond. I want to say thanks to Dennis for sharing this odd bit of information I came across during my research, and thanks to anyone who took the time to enjoy or be entertained by it. Personally, nothing gets me going quite like space operas and weird ideas about death…
What a great collection of recommendations today. I don't think I have anything to add other than maybe reading any of the astonishingly crafted stories in Brian Evanson's Altman's Tongue, which still cause me to put the book down and wonder how in the world did he manage to do that?
Whenever I think about teaching a workshop I think about the possible value of studying things other than strictly literary texts, such as science writing or other types of writing, because I often find that issues like characterization or emotional rhetoric are starkly foregrounded when the writing isn't so self-consciously attempting to craft them as effects.
I don't know, its an untested idea.
Bernard,
What short stories (and writers) do you think of as models, or ideal? Why?
Faulkner: "A Rose for Emily"
Hemingway: "Hills Like White Elephants" and "A Clean Well-Lighted Place"
Fitzgerald: "A Diamond as Big as the Ritz"
Joyce: "The Dead"
Contemporary authors I think are great short story writers: Will Self, Martin Amis
What are some great online magazines or resources for people interested in short fiction?
Ugh, I'm not sure.
Any great collections or anthologies of short fiction?
"Points of View: An Anthology of Short Stories"
What have you had to learn as you wrote?
White space and when not to say/write something. To let images speak for themselves.
What’s the worst thing to do in short fiction?
Too much "telling."
Would you like to give this class an assignment?
Hmm…
I've never taken or taught a fiction workshop.
William Trevor.
Dennis, I intentionally excluded you from my short fiction list(s) because I'm sure Bernard has you covered. For the record, I'd go with "My Mark," "Jerk," "The Anal-Retentive Line Editor," and "The Ash Gray Proclamation."
There's a recent "Teacher of the Year" who just got busted for fucking a 15 year-old student. I can see Davey on the stand now: "Yeah, but I liked it. Best poontang I've had in a while. Do you like John Cena?" 😀
I knew a guy once who jerked off a stray dog in a park in Salisbury, MD. They have excellent pubage from what he told me.
Hahaha, that one line made me lol. I never had sex in middle school, but I like to think I jerked off more than any middle-schooler ever. EVER!
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Hey Dennis,
For Saturday and Sunday I went to the music festival, FYF, so I missed a few articles and P.S. The one before this one was very amusing. The video links you posted were pretty cool. I was a little surprised that you posted a link to an episode of League of Galactic Heroes. I have been meaning to watch that series for years.
In reply to the last P.S, that would be amazing. Bryan and I are planning to actually start practicing together soon and would love to maybe do a show before the end of summer or if time doesn't permit it by the beginning of fall.
That is pretty cool that you get to work with such talented people. How does it feel to have such creative people to work with (Being yourself absolutely creative as well)? I bet it feels really rewarding. One of the greatest things about being in Old Soybu (no matter how little known we were) I got to meet some really creative people from different people and vibe with their music. In fact, I barely knew Bryan (I met him once or twice) until he recognized me at CSUN and we began talking about what we liked and disliked about music. For some reason I feel that is similar to how Ezra Pound met most of the modernist writers; with some vague idea of who they were then talking for hours about what they liked and disliked about literature and how they would change it.
I just got The Marbled Swarm a few days ago and I hope I could get to it soon. Right now I am almost finished with The Pale King (less than 50 pages) and still have to read books for 5 different English classes (I am not sure if this is a blessing or a curse yet) so I might take a while to read it. I was just poking at Ugly Man a few days ago and admiring the amazing creativity in "The Anal-Retentive Line Editor" (my favorite in the collection). I am so happy I heard your interview with Michael Silverblatt, because I would never read such a funny story.
*Whoops forgot to answer the questions
What short stories (and writers) do you think of as models, or ideal? Why?
Not to flatter you Dennis, but "The Anal-Retentive Line Editor" was an absolutely well written story. For me the story everything I wanted in a story, humor and creativity. Just the idea of a editor hitting on a erotic fiction writer through editorial notes just seems so amazingly smart.
A very great writer to look up to as a model would be Kafka. He put his whole heart and soul into his stories and you could feel it. "The Judgement" is an amazing short story that could be debated from multiple angles as well as the well as "The Stoker" and "In the Penal Colony"
What are some great online magazines or resources for people interested in short fiction?
Not sure on this one. I have only read a few short stories from this webzine called theaprilreader which is run through the /lit/ board on 4chan. I also remember reading a few stories by Tao Lin on the Vice magazine website.
Any great collections or anthologies of short fiction?
I don't read much short story anthologies. If I want to read short stories I usually just re-read Poe or when I am feeling more adventurous might read a collection of stories by Robert E. Howard, the creator of Conan. And of course Metamorphosis and Other Stories.
What have you had to learn as you wrote?
That editing goes a long way.
What’s the worst thing to do in short fiction?
To not be clear. Conciseness is key.
Would you like to give this class an assignment?
I think it would be interesting to have an assignment in which the students have to construct a clear and concise flash fiction restricted by the amount of words.
I read this years ago, but for me it still encapsulates that amazing 'twist in the tail'thing which short stories are so good at.
"A Little Place off the Edgeware Road", by Graham Greene.
Dennis! It's performance week and rehearsals have really stepped up a gear. I'm covered in bruises and my body's feeling SO hard and toned. Tomorrow we have a costume fitting with Stevie Stewart (ex BodyMap – ask Yury) then Friday is dress rehearsal til 10pm.
The BBC are live-streaming Sunday night's performance at 8pm UK time,not sure if you can see this in France though, but for anyone who's interested:-
http://thespace.org
More soon.